Stuck Ignition Tumbler on 2005 Ninja 636

[UHATEIT]

TFOG has always been of great help and advice when I have ever had an issue and I have one that started a while ago but never got around to fixing it. Hoping you might have some advice that can help me!

On my 2005 Ninja 636, My key in the ignition will not turn from the ON position to go left to the OFF position. It started back in July and was sticking and then would be hit and miss as to if it would actually to left from ON to OFF. Now it just straight up will not turn to the OFF position. So since it's been parked in my garage I have had to leave the key in the ignition but so that it will not drain the battery I have the key turned to the right and is sitting between ON and the Parking Light setting. As far as I can tell it is not draining the battery or using any energy since it is not on the ON and not on the parking light, it is in limbo between.

My question would be if there are any things I could try to do to get the key so turn left from ON to OFF. I am assuming there is something wrong with the tumbler but not sure how to diagnose it without taking it apart, which I would like to avoid having to do. I have shot WD40 in there and that did not work at all. There could be an issue with one of the links on the tumbler or some dirt/sand in there but I am unsure. I have a brand new cut spare key that I made which seems a bit stiffer/stronger than the stock key and even that will not turn it to OFF. Then only other thing I thought of that I have read about is graphite powder which I have not yet tried but not sure if that will just gunk up the tumbler since there is already WD40 in there (most likely it would).

Otherwise I don't mind turning it to the parking light setting as it locks the steering wheel which is fine but then it leaves the damn tail light on, which will obviously drain the battery. I don't mind doing that when I go on a ride or to lunch since it probably won't drain the battery dry in 1-2 hours. But leaving it in my garage it will eventually drain the battery dry. As an option, is there a way to disengage the parking light itself? I could not find a fuse specifically for the parking light, and obviously I want the taillight to work and stay on while riding, but would like to see if I can disengage the parking light function so I could just turn it to the parking light setting and have an open circuit that will not drain the battery while the bike is parked (as no light would be on). This way I don't have to leave the key in the ignition and can take it out without it draining the battery at all.

Any advice would be great!

[Native]

you might try having a key made slighter larger than the original, tumblers can wear. graphite powder works great in locks, but since the lock is verital its just ok. wd40 has about the same action, but gums up the lock over time, since it didn't work thats not it. there could be a tumbler that came out, since its vertical it won't come out unless you turn it upside down. a locksmith can fix it pretty cheap if you take it off and take it to him

[UHATEIT]

I will try to see if graphite powder will work. I was worried as I sprayed WD40 in there a couple months ago and was thinking the powder will stick to the WD40 and just clog up the tumbler. I would really like to avoid having to remove the Tumbler as I would need to get the pivot nut removed and the upper triple and then the screws are one time use before the heads snap off as well. Would really like to see what the issue is that is causing it and would be willing to ride it to a locksmith if they can stick a scope in there to look.

Is there anyway to disengage the parking light from coming on when it goes into the parking light setting? If so and there is a way to disengage it then I could just turn it to that setting and the key comes out fine. But if I can't disengage it then the battery will drain out as the light will be on.

[Native]

sounds like something is stuck at the bottom, could be a pin came out

[UHATEIT]

I was able to take the cover portion off but unable to tell what is wrong inside of the tumbler. Unfortunately in order to remove the ignition you have to take off the triple tree so you can drill out the rivet screws that are holding the ignition system to the upper triple. I'd prefer not to have to do that but it appears to be the only way to remove the entire ignition and then take it apart to see whats wrong inside.

I bought graphite powder last night and put a bunch in there but that didn't help with whatever the issue was. So chances are its probably one of those tumbler keys/pins that broke loose. I was hoping something was just stuck and that the graphite powder could break it loose but I don't think that's the case.

As for disengaging the parking light function I would have to trace the wire and disable that somehow. Since I pulled the fuse for the tail light and the parking light function still turns the light on when I turn he key to that setting (which is the only way to now remove the key) and then the light would be left on and drain the battery (not sure how long a battery can last with the taillight left on) So it has to do with wiring from the actual taillight to the parking light switch that turns it on. If I could figure out what wire it is I could cut it and disengage the light from turning on and then would be completely fine as no lights would come on and I could have the key out!

Perhaps someone has electrical knowledge and would know where to find that wire? As I still need the taillight to be on when the bike is on, just not when it's in the parking light setting.

[longrider]

First, the bolts are Torx screws with a security pin and I have the appropriate tool to remove (and reuse) them. No drilling needed. I can find the wire tonight (manual at home) but be careful around the switch as Kawasaki put security into the switch so you can't just hot wire the bike

[UHATEIT]

First, the bolts are Torx screws with a security pin and I have the appropriate tool to remove (and reuse) them. No drilling needed. I can find the wire tonight (manual at home) but be careful around the switch as Kawasaki put security into the switch so you can't just hot wire the bike

That's awesome! I was really hoping to avoid having to remove the triple tree and then drill them out. They look like a headless bolt tho so I think they are ones you'd have to drill out? I hears they are the type of bolts that once tightened the heads snap off at a certain torque setting. If you have a Kawasaki tool that can somehow get these out easily that would be great! Then I can remove the tumbler and take it apart to see what's wrong inside of it. Like I said it turns ON and to PARKING but will not turn leftwards from ON to the OFF setting. Key works fine in the tank and the underseat area.

If I can fix it that would be the BEST option. Otherwise, I would hope to find the wire that is specifically for the parking light setting so I can put a bridge in there to disengage it so that the light will not turn on when I take the key out. Do you happen to know tho if it is in the parking light setting if that is the ONLY think that would draw current at that time? If I can disengage the light and that's the only thing then I shouldn't have any problems taking the key out and just leaving it in the parking light setting.

[Spooph]

My first thought here is that if the tumbler will turn to Park, there is nothing wrong with the key or the pins in the tumbler. A barrell tumbler like the one on our bikes only has 1 area where the pins protrude through the shear line and otherwise the pins ride against the barrel casing, which is smooth, so, unless a pin broke or the barrel got scorred somehow, this might not be your issue.

The lock position also engages the fork lock, and this area is much more exposed to crap generally. Maybe there is a block of some sort on the frame lock? That would keep it from turning in just that direction. I would look at the frame lock/bolt mechanism, and not just the tumbler.

[UHATEIT]

It doesn't turn to the park setting on the left of the OFF switch, but turns to the parking light one that is on the right side of the ON switch. So there could be something in the cylinder blocking it from turning left from On to Off. I'm thinking maybe one of the pins fell loose. Since I'm not too familiar with this whole thing I am hoping there is a fix for this! Was really hoping it would be something other than having to actually remove the tumbler/cylinder from the triple tree but that looks like the only option is to take it apart and see whats loose inside or blocking the key from turning to the left

This is how it looks from left to right: Lock - OFF - ON - Parking Light

So I can ONLY take the key out if It's in the Parking Light setting, but leaves the light on and drains the battery. I can turn it left to ON and start the bike. But it will not turn any further left to OFF or LOCK which would allow for key removal and no lights on to drain the battery.

[Native]

turn the bike upside down and shake, jk - on a car, I've been able to drag out the pins with a paperclip, on a bike that won't work unless you can remove the triple clamp. I do have the 36mm socket and a cutoff tool - Lone Tree area

[blaircsf]

...
Then I can remove the tumbler and take it apart to see what's wrong inside of it.
...

Your choice obviously, but if it were me and I were taking it out I think I would just replace it.

[longrider]

I checked the wiring and there is no way to disable the light only in park. If your location is valid that is not that far for me going home from work either tomorrow or Saturday to take the switch off

[Native]

Your choice obviously, but if it were me and I were taking it out I think I would just replace it.

they are usually pricy, locksmith can rebuild for about $50

[Spooph]

Yea, definitely sounds like something is fishy with the tumbler and not the locking mechanism. You'll either have to replace it or rebuild it - either way I'd take it apart to get positive confirmation of the problem.

[UHATEIT]

Yeha I'll have to open it up and check. Was trying to avoid having to take the ignition off the bike since it had those special bolts. But once it's off should be easy to open and diagnose!

I actually found a thread on the zx6r forum about a few wpeiple with the exact same issue. Wouldn't allow you to turn the key left to OFF or LOCK.turned out when they opened there's up there was a loose sring that was partially forcing the lock down and wouldn't allow it to turn. Each fixed it once they opened it up.so hopefully it's an easy fix but looks like either way the ignition switch will have to come off the bike.

[Hibs]

A tip on those "special bolts" if you don't have the tool. You can drill the heads off (or cut them off with dremel, etc) then once you have the ignition off use some vice-grips to remove what's left of the bolt. With no pressure on it, the threads should turn right out. Then go to the hardware store and replace with a bolt of your choice. I'd recommend a dab of lock-tight to make sure they don't loosen up when installing.

[TFOGGuys]

For removing the shear bolts(heads break off at design torque), a left handed cobalt drill and a good center punch are your best friends. Most guys just use allen bolts with loctite to reassemble.

[UHATEIT]

For shits n gigs I shot a video of the issue and put it on youtube

https://youtu.be/GM6VKIusN_I

[UHATEIT]

Longrider came over last night and helped me get everything taken care of. Unfortunately with the snap off headed torque bolts that hold the ignition system to the triple there was no way to get them out without having to remove the upper triple tree. We removed the upper triple and then used a dremmel to score lines in the head and then used a screwdriver to twist them out so we could get the ignition switch off the triple. Once we had things apart and opened up we could see the issue. There was something inside of the ignition system that when you try to turn it from ON to the left towards OFF that is loose and is not holding the lock mechanism inside of the switch so it sticks out just a tad and for some reason causes the issue of the key not being able to turn. You can push it with your finger and it clicks shut and stays inside and then the key works just fine until you try to then go from OFF back to ON and then the spring doesnt hold it in and the lock mechanism slips out again.

Aside from breaking the entire ignition system open (as it appears to be sealed shut) you would have to replace it as there is that loose spring inside there. So we just blocked the LOCK hole on the frame and then blocked the lock mechanism on the back of the ignition switch. Now the key goes form off to on and no problems at all, you just can't put it into LOCK or PARKING LIGHT as the lock mechanism is blocked.

Thanks Longrider for coming over and helping me out to get this all sorted out! We know what the issue is for sure!

[bulldog]

Props to Longrider; such a good guy

[Spooph]

Indeed, props to to Longrider! Also, I feel a bit vindicated as it was the locking mechanism which caused the issue, and no the tumblr.

[UHATEIT]

Indeed, props to to Longrider! Also, I feel a bit vindicated as it was the locking mechanism which caused the issue, and no the tumblr.

You were totally correct, the issue is that you cant fully get to the locking mechanism without having to take off the ignition system. I actually found a thread on the ZX6R forum about other guys with the same issue (didn't find it till after this thread despite having searched). Issued not being able to turn the key to the left. One guy mentioned there was a loose spring inside of the ignition system (which is basically all connected to the locking mechanism) that keeps the lock pushed outwards just a tad at all times and was causing the issue. When we took the system off you can see this issue and push the lock it, then it would stick closed and the key would turn at it normally should. But as soon as you do that the lock sticks back out again. So it was basically a loose spring you'd have to push in constantly. We have a temporary fix as I cannot get the ignition and lock system completely open (they appear to be pressed together and need to be drilled out) and since I didn't want to do that we just have the lock blocked so you cant lock the steering wheel but the key comes out on the OFF position as it should.